Drowned Madonna: Dear Billy, Welcome to Drowned Madonna. Where did you grow up and study?

Billy Steinberg: I grew up in Palm Springs, California. I was a Literature major at Bard College in upstate New York.

Drowned Madonna: What is your background?

Billy Steinberg: My father was a farmer, growing table grapes in the Coachella Valley in Southern California.

Drowned Madonna: What were your initial influences and interests?

Billy Steinberg: As a child, I was particularly passionate about two things: Baseball and Music. My favorite recording artists were Ricky Nelson “Poor Little Fool” and The Everly Brothers “All I Have To Do Is Dream”. I had a treasured collection of 45’s (singles).

Drowned Madonna: What about your first compositions?

Billy Steinberg: In the late 1960’s, the first songs I wrote were folk songs, inspired by Bob Dylan, Donovan and others. The first song of mine to be recorded was “How Do I Make You” by Linda Ronstadt in 1980.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, you have written many memorable songs over the past two decades with your friend Tom Kelly, including five #1 Billboard pop hits. Two of your greatest compositions are Cyndi Lauper's "True Colors" and most of all Madonna's "Like A Virgin". When did you meet Tom and when did you start writing songs together?

Billy Steinberg: I met Tom Kelly in 1981 at a party at record producer Keith Olsen’s home in L.A. We wrote our first songs together shortly thereafter.

Drowned Madonna: Do you still remember when you started writing "Like A Virgin"?

Billy Steinberg: I wrote the lyric to “Like A Virgin” while sitting in my pickup truck in my family’s vineyard in Coachella, California.

Drowned Madonna: How was it originally conceived? Was it an uptempo song since the very start?

Billy Steinberg: “Like A Virgin” was written in 1983. The lyrics were written before the music. Because the first verse lyric starts out on a serious note, (“I made it through the wilderness / Somehow I made it through / I didn’t know how lost I was / Until I found you”), Tom’s first inclination was to approach it as a ballad. Then, when he arrived at the chorus, the ballad approach sounded ridiculous. It was out of frustration that Tom started to play the bass line and sing falsetto. As soon as I heard it, I said, “That’s it!”.

Drowned Madonna: And so you and Tom recorded a simple, keyboard-based, eight-track demo at his home studio. What technology did you use? Was it you or Tom the one who sang the vocals in the demo?

Billy Steinberg: The demo for “Like A Virgin” was recorded on an 8-track system. It is a simple demo with Tom on synthesizer and lead vocals. I sang a few “atmospheric” backing vocals, including the “hey!” after the title. We used a Linn drum pattern.

Drowned Madonna: Were you both happy with the completed demo? Did you feel that "Like A Virgin" was a very original song, and that it could be a hit?

Billy Steinberg: Tom and I were very happy with the song after we finished it. We knew we had something unique. Musically, it was inspired by Motown, ie: Holland Dozier & Holland’s, “I Can’t Help Myself”, but lyrically it was very cutting edge. We felt the song could be a hit if there wasn’t too much resistance to the bold lyric.

Drowned Madonna: But the success of a song also depends by the artist that records it. Had you any idea regarding the right artist to record "Like A Virgin" when you were composing it?

Billy Steinberg: Tom and I never tried to write songs with particular artists in mind. So, when we wrote “Like A Virgin” we were just having fun. After the song was completed, we realized it would be difficult to cast. There weren’t many artists in the early eighties who could sing it.

Drowned Madonna: We heard that it took more than a year before you found out the right artist to record "Like a Virgin" because the title and the theme seemed a bit jolting and risqué. When did you finally find out Madonna?

Billy Steinberg: Tom and I had a meeting with Warner Brothers A&R man Michael Ostin. It was a chance for us to play him songs that we had been writing. I don’t think that before the meeting we had put “Like A Virgin” and Madonna together in our minds. I knew of Madonna because my girlfriend at the time was an aerobics instructor and she used Madonna’s “Burning Up”. This meeting occurred before the success of “Borderline” or “Lucky Star”. After playing several other song demos, we played “Like A Virgin”. Michael loved it immediately and suggested it would be right for Madonna.

Drowned Madonna: Have you ever met Madonna?

Billy Steinberg: Tom and I never met Madonna until several years after the song became a hit.

Drowned Madonna: Did you give some input during the recording sessions?

Billy Steinberg: We weren’t involved in her recording process. She was working with producer, Nile Rodgers.

Drowned Madonna: Had you the chance to listen to the first demo sang by Madonna or you simply had to wait the final cut?

Billy Steinberg: Michael Ostin gave us a copy of Madonna’s version after it was finished.

Drowned Madonna: Can you tell us what changes Madonna and Nile introduced?

Billy Steinberg: Madonna’s recording of “Like A Virgin” is almost exactly like our original demo. Madonna copied all of Tom’s vocal inflections and ad libs right to the end of our demo. Nile Rodgers’ main contribution was the live bass and drums. Other than that, she followed the map of our demo.

Drowned Madonna: After listening to Madonna's cut.. did you realize"Like A Virgin" was going to be such a masterpiece? Do you think that Madonna's performance at the first MTV Video Music Awards, before the songs have been already released, is one of the reason why the song had that great impact?

Billy Steinberg: When Tom and I heard Madonna’s recording of “Like A Virgin”, we felt confident that it would be a hit. She recorded it while Warner Brothers was promoting her first album. They were surprised when “Holiday”, “Borderline” and “Lucky Star” became so popular and received so much airplay. They kept having to push back the release schedule of “Like A Virgin”. For that reason, “Like A Virgin” hadn’t yet been released when Madonna appeared on the MTV Video Music Awards. Her performance took the world by surprise. It was so audacious. At first, Tom and I were worried that it was unflattering of Madonna and would effect the performance of the song. The camera followed her as she rolled around the stage. It only seemed to increase the public’s insatiable interest in her.

Drowned Madonna: Were you honoured that "Like A Virgin" was also chosen for the album title?

Billy Steinberg: I was thrilled that “Like A Virgin” was chosen as the title of the album. Also, “True Colors” was the title of Cyndi Lauper’s second album. I loved the photo they selected for the cover of the “Like A Virgin” album.

Drowned Madonna: Talking about Cyndi Lauper.. Madonna and Cyndi have been compared so many times in the 80s. Do you think that Cyndi could have put "Like A Virgin" across quite like Madonna did?

Billy Steinberg: I don’t think that Cyndi Lauper could have delivered “Like A Virgin” as effectively as Madonna did. At the time, Cyndi’s image was more artsy. Madonna’s image was more blatantly sexy. Cyndi’s music had more rock influences. Madonna’s music was more “dance”. “Like A Virgin” was influenced by Motown Soul. It worked better for Madonna. And, crucially, it was a match made in heaven for a girl named “Madonna” to sing a song with the word “virgin” in the title.

Drowned Madonna: What do you think of the video they filmed in Venice, Italy? Do you think it fits the song's theme?

Billy Steinberg: When I first saw the video for “Like A Virgin”, I thought the Venice, Italy thing was silly. I couldn’t see how it related to the song. Also, the gondola and the lion seemed odd. I wouldn’t say it’s a great video, but it is exotic and it caught people’s attention.

Drowned Madonna: Have you ever saw the first scenes of Quentin Tarantino's "Reservoir Dogs" movie where they talk about Madonna and "Like A Virgin"? They say "Like a Virgin is all about a girl who digs a guy with a big d*ck. The whole song is a metaphor for big d*cks" and something like this... This is another proof that "Like A Virgin" is an anthem, isn't it?

Billy Steinberg: I thought the "Reservoir Dogs" scene was funny. I am constantly amazed at how often “Like A Virgin” is referenced.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, did you see how Madonna re-invented "Like A Virgin" in her Blond Ambition and Girlie Show tours? What are your thoughts?

Billy Steinberg: I liked the way Madonna re-invented “Like A Virgin” in her tours. I wish she would re-invent it again! On her last tour, she didn’t perform it.

Drowned Madonna: Twenty years after the release of "Like A Virgin", Madonna ironically performed with Britney Spears and Christina Aguillera at the MTV Video Music Awards. They re-created the famous "Like A Virgin" performance at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Christina and Britney opened the show and sang the track… then Madonna went on stage - dressed like their husband - and sang "Hollywood"… and finally they kissed on their mouths… Did you see this ironic performance?!

Billy Steinberg: I loved the Madonna / Christina / Britney thing. It is flattering when a 20-year-old song can remain provocative.

Drowned Madonna: Do you think that Britney, Christina or another of the new pop sensations could be able to deliver the song quite like Madonna did in the 80s… supposing that Madonna never released it before?

Billy Steinberg: I don’t think that anyone before, during or after Madonna could have delivered “Like A Virgin” with equal impact. She had the perfect voice and the perfect image.

Drowned Madonna: What would you say to those who think that Madonna is only business and she has no talent?

Billy Steinberg: People seriously underrate Madonna’s songwriting talent. She co-writes most of her hits, including wonderful songs like “Like A Prayer”, “Live To Tell” and “Music”. It is my understanding that she writes the lyrics and the melody topline on the songs she co-writes. I think that most of her musical collaborators provide the musical track. She is a great songwriter. This is sadly often overlooked. I think Madonna is a classic pop singer. Her voice is also underrated. Cyndi Lauper’s voice is more powerful, but Madonna’s is perfect for pop. To compare them as singers is like comparing Diana Ross to Aretha Franklin. Aretha, the more powerful singer, never could have delivered the perfect vocals on all the Holland, Dozier & Holland songs for the Supremes.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, would you like to write a song with her?

Billy Steinberg: I have always wanted to write a song with Madonna. Tom and I tried to make that connection after “Like A Virgin” was a hit, but, apparently, she wasn’t interested. I was jealous when my friend, Rick Nowels, got to write with her.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, let's talk about "True Colours".. Did you originally write the song for Cyndi Lauper?

Billy Steinberg: “True Colors” was not written for Cyndi. In fact, our demo was piano-based and was loosely inspired by songs like “Bridge Over Troubled Waters” and “Let It Be”. Where Madonna copied the demo of “Like A Virgin”, Cyndi completely reinvented the song when she recorded it. I think her recording of “True Colors” is brilliant. Tom and I got lucky that Cyndi chose to record it. No other artist at that time could have given it such a creative, poignant reading.

Drowned Madonna: Phil Collins recently covered "True Colours". Do you like his version?

Billy Steinberg: I was pleased that Phil Collins covered “True Colors”, but I don’t think his version is as effective as Cyndi’s.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, among all the songs you wrote, which is your favourite? And which is the one that had the greatest impact?

Billy Steinberg: Tom and I wrote some great songs together. I can’t say I have one favorite. I like different ones for different reasons. “Like A Virgin” and the Divinyls’ “I Touch Myself” had cutting edge impact. “Eternal Flame” is a beautiful melody and reminds me of a Beatles song. “I Drove All Night” is dramatic like a Roy Orbison song. One of the highlights of my life was working with Roy to record his vocals on it. It was just Roy, Tom and me in Tom’s home studio. Writing with Chrissie Hynde was a great honor. I love “I’ll Stand By You”. But, when we first wrote it, I worried that it wasn’t a Pretenders song. It seemed sort of conventional. Of all our songs I think “Like A Virgin” has had the most impact, but “True Colors” is probably the standard.

Drowned Madonna: Can you reveal us what you are currently working on?

Billy Steinberg: I am currently writing with an amazing young writer named Josh Alexander. We have been writing together for about 2 years. We have 3 songs coming out by Fefe Dobson, including her first single, “Don’t Let It Go To Your Head”. We also wrote a song for T.A.T.U. which is being considered as the first single for their upcoming CD. The song is called, “All About Us”. In addition, we wrote 3 songs for the Veronicas (a new act on Warner Brothers), which will soon be released.

Drowned Madonna: .. And what are your goals today?

Billy Steinberg: Working with Josh has really given me a new injection of excitement. I feel really keen to write songs again. It’s wonderful. My goal is for us to write some big hits that will have the impact that songs like “Like A Virgin” and “True Colors” have had.

Drowned Madonna: Billy, thank you so much for chatting with us. It was a great honour!