Drowned Madonna: Hi, Bruce, welcome to DrownedMadonna.com.

Bruce Rodgers: Hi. Thanks for asking me to talk to your website. I notice that most of your site is devoted to the 'Re-invention Tour' so I wonder why the 'Drowned World' design is still of interest…but thanks for asking.

Drowned Madonna: How couldn't we be interested in the Drowned World Tour?! Bruce... what was your childhood's dream?

Bruce Rodgers: For as long as I can remember I wanted to be an artist…a painter.

My mother had an old cousin from Mexico who was an artist. His name was Sergio and he was a very cool guy. He could draw anything right before our eyes. Also-I grew up in West Texas, an area known as the 'oil patch'. The weather there was as much a part of life as anything. We had thundering rainstorms with lightning and tornados, windstorms, mud storms, flash floods, hailstorms…we had such large skies I sometimes felt that I was in the midst of God's theatre. So, huge dramatic paintings were the ones I gravitated to as I grew older.
When I was a kid my brothers and I had lots of animals, guns and pickup trucks. My dad was a truck driver who liked cold beer, fishing, throwing horseshoes, and listening to Johnny Cash music. His hobby was growing jalapeños in the garden and taking his family to see wrestling night and rodeos at the Ector County Coliseum in nearby Odessa, Texas. My mom was a beautiful Tex-Mexican senorita who took belly dancing lessons and mind control classes to pass time. Her musical tastes ran from Janis Joplin to Pavarotti. We built our own toys, forts, racecars, and musical instruments. We were a unique bunch of people and my brothers and I were always encouraged to do whatever we wanted to do. We were wild and free! We were self-taught musicians and singers and we always had beautiful girlfriends! I loved and enjoyed staying up watching the late late late movies on television and by watching these films I learned that there were other places and people on earth. I used movies to learn about the possibilities of life; love, death, happiness and I liked the power that performance could have over me emotionally. All these things in combination created the childhood dream of mine. Madonna's Drowned World design is one manifestation of that dream.

Drowned Madonna: We know that you graduated from Texas Tech with a degree in architecture and you minored in theatre set design. Can you tell us why you went this route?

Bruce Rodgers: At about age 15 I became enamoured with architecture. I found work as an architect's assistant who was a very religious man and it wasn't uncommon for me to draft for 10 hours straight 6 days a week while the Southern Baptist radio station blasted throughout the studio. This was obviously before computers and cad programs and it was almost like I was part of a monastic order of draftsmen.
We prayed at the beginning of the work day, we ate lunch while listening to radio sermons, we even had a rule that we would never design any buildings that sold beer, or had dance floors and pool tables.
In a way I became blind to any artistic avenue other than religious radio and religious architecture.
Once I started college my eyes opened to more possibilities of architecture. I enjoyed the study of architecture because it seemed to cover all the arts…sketching, painting, sculpting, history and each artistic decision was driven by the movement of people thru space. One late evening I noticed the theatre students in the next building. They were working late and I wandered over … People were laughing, singing, and painting and building sets, practicing their lines and moves, focusing lights, etc, etc… they were being free and happy…It reminded me of when I was a kid…but it also reminded me of what I really wanted to be.

Drowned Madonna: Was your architecture background helpful for the set design?

Bruce Rodgers: Very helpful, I learned basic sketching and painting and drafting techniques. I also learned the basics of perspective visualization and sun angle calculations. But most importantly I learned that architecture wants designers to be confident and open to all the elements needed to make a proper building. My first scenic design professor was Dr. Forrest Newlin. Doc, as we called him, was a true architectural and theatrical design historian and we instantly became friends. He loved to talk architecture…especially Louie Sullivan, Frank Lloyd Wright, and he could recite the history of Italian and European architecture for hours and hours. So it's ironic, I learned to love architecture because of Doc, my theatre teacher…in a nutshell architecture became set design to me and I combined the confidence I'd learned in architecture school with the emotion I craved from set design. Madonna's Drowned World design is one example of that sort of combination.

Drowned Madonna: Is there some college teaching that keeps on being helpful?

Bruce Rodgers: Yes…Louis Sullivan said: "Form ever follows Function"…and Doc said, "Design something that makes lighting designers look good". I can't help but follow those two teachings.

Drowned Madonna: Bruce, who is your favourite architect?

Bruce Rodgers: I can't say there's just one…but to name a few- Carlo Scarpa…because I could tell without meeting him who he was by looking at his architecture…to me he was a sculptor first…architect second. His love of the ancient never stopped him from thinking and designing in the now. I also follow Piano, Gaudi, Boullee', and Lebbeus Woods. Lately I've also added sculptors to my list of heroes such as Giacometti and Serra and the light sculptor James Terrel and the installation artist Bill Viola.

Drowned Madonna: When did you found Tribe Inc.?

Bruce Rodgers: January 1997.

Drowned Madonna: Tell us a bit more of Tribe Inc.

Bruce Rodgers: In 1996 I was just coming off of my first design success, the AT&T Global Olympic Pavilion at the Atlanta Olympic Games. The design was a bittersweet success because it was also the location of a bombing that killed a person and hurt many others. I used the occasion to mark the start of my new beginning, which was my new design studio Tribe inc.

Drowned Madonna: Tell us more about the AT&T Global Olympic Village...

Bruce Rodgers: The AT&TGOV was a great experience. Here was a client that initially asked for a $5000.00 hospitality tent for the upcoming games. 2 years into the longest design process of my then career we had a $33million design being fabricated. After the first meeting I found myself caught up in a wave of a huge global commercial marketing strategy to build a temporary structure that not only provided a music venue as a centerpiece but also served as a safe zone for the athletes and their families. The 300,000 sf structure also housed 9 NBC news/media headquarters and also had a 10,000 sf consumer space filled with about 100 payphones and computer stations. And it had to have a huge design presence. We projected the games live onto the sides of the structure for audiences of 80,000 fans each night. I was the designer and I ran a team of designers/architects, interior decorators and fabricators for 2 solid years. I attended meetings all over the country each week and basically ran my own Olympic marathon. It was an amazing experience until the fatal blast that evening. The bomber had targeted the show control tower where lighting, video, audio and projection were located.

Drowned Madonna: What about the Brave New World experience?!

Bruce Rodgers: Brave New World was an interesting project that was at the other end of the budget spectrum from the AT&T gig. I had $10,000.00 and 2 days to build a set from scratch for a unique ABC primetime series. The series was an award winning interview/investigative/educational show by the producers and creators of ABC Nightline. It starred Ted Koppel and showcased many strange topics such as life outside of planet earth, robotics, and medicine. It was such a unique show that the set got a lot of attention and earned me my first Emmy nomination.

Drowned Madonna: You once said that with Tribe Inc. you are trying to make a difference with design, you are trying to make an artistic statement and you design connections to the heart.

Bruce Rodgers: Yes…I am lucky because my designs frame live musical performances. And most people attend musical performance to enhance their lives. To a lot of people a live performance is close to a religious experience so in a way I am hopefully part of an experience that changes people's lives.

Drowned Madonna: Bruce, what are your goals?

Bruce Rodgers: To be a great father to my children. To design beautiful things. And I still have my childhood goal to be a great artist.

Drowned Madonna: What is the essence of your design?

Bruce Rodgers: That answer is still evolving. But I think it is a combination of ancient and modern leanings. I like the fact that the essence of my art is generated from music and emotion. And being somewhat loose in my study of history and living my modern life in an unchartered manner creates an adventurous design essence in everything I do.

Drowned Madonna: Is design a sort of philosophy in your life?

Bruce Rodgers: I'm not a person who lives in a modern house, or a person who is a slave to modern clothes, or one who always says modern things, but I am someone who spends every waking and sleeping moment thinking about the emotions, the feelings of design. Thru these emotional searches I tend to pray alot for specific types of projects that will allow me to flex my evolving design philosophies.

Drowned Madonna: Is it more creative and challenging being a designer or an architect?

Bruce Rodgers: I hope to someday be a unique architect, and I hope I'm bringing something to the set design party so I'm not sure… Someday if I do more 'architecture' I will let you know…I imagine that both are equally challenging and rewarding.

Drowned Madonna: What is the way you usually work for a new set design?

Bruce Rodgers: I listen to the music of whoever my new client is. I listen for hours and hours…and while I listen I sketch and make collage models until something manifests from the combination of the music, my confidence and the emotions I sense. At some point I throw pieces of concepts to my assistants and they develop things on computer or in model form. By the end of concept design we have all sorts of things to look at that support a main idea or two.

Drowned Madonna: Madonna saw your design for Ricky Martin's "La Vida Loca" tour and really liked that vibe and wanted you to create the set design for her "Drowned World Tour", which was her return after being away, for 10 years, from being on tour. What did you feel when you have been contacted for the first time?

Bruce Rodgers: I felt like I always feel when a singer calls…I felt like it was a dream. My conduit to Madonna was Jamie King, the director of the "Drowned World Tour" and the director of the Ricky Martin Tour. He and Madonna were long time friends. According to Jamie she saw Ricky's show and wanted me to design her next show. My first Madonna meeting/working experience was an introductory design for her opening performance for the 2000 Grammy Awards…the one with the Holographic limozine and the video wall that gave the audience the entire visual history of Madonna in less than 2 minutes. After that performance we started discussions about Drowned World.



Drowned Madonna: Have you ever saw a Madonna's live show before?

Bruce Rodgers: I'd never ever seen a Madonna show…but I knew from watching her career that she was a powerful entity.

Drowned Madonna: What did she want for the "Drowned World Tour" set design?

Bruce Rodgers: She told me she wanted a set like Ricky's: silver and shiny and modern.

Drowned Madonna: Did she give you the setlist for designing the set?

Bruce Rodgers: No, all she said was the following: 'I want to arrive on a spaceship. I want to ride a mechanical bull. I want to have a disco party, dance a redneck hoedown, put on a gypsy performance, and have a kabuki style dance scene'. After that conversation we never spoke again until production rehearsals.

Drowned Madonna: How many times did you listened to her songs before entering in the right mood?

Bruce Rodgers: It took an evening…about 4 hours. I knew Madonna's music however I wasn't aware of her darker music…after 4 hours I was in a dark state but emotionally charged…I was sketching my ass off. I was glad to get a basic breakdown of her goals but honored that she let me run with the design from there. About 4 days later I had the presentation ready for her.

Drowned Madonna: Did she changed something in the setlist during the creative process? How did it reflect on your set? Did you have to change something?

Bruce Rodgers: I took all five of her requests and designed a set that would flow regardless of which song made it on the show. During production rehearsals I did have to take the kabuki tree and bushes and make them more dangerous. She asked if I could mount butcher knives to the limbs…. I didn't because I would have been responsible for bloodshed all over the world-ha-ha…we made what looked like sharp knifepoints out of thick rubber.

Drowned Madonna: [laughs]. A lot of the stuff she used for the tour was dark. Was it challenging to design a dark set for a live show, which also had to be filmed?

Bruce Rodgers: No…it was exciting. I made sure we had all the sightlines covered but designed a set that incorporated LED video walls architecturally. These led elements worked as lighting tools… …Peter Morse, the lighting designer painted a masterpiece in each scene. He's an amazing lighting artist who I worked with for the first time on Ricky Martin's show.

Drowned Madonna: Can you tell us something about the sketches you did?

Bruce Rodgers: I sketched 5 or six main renderings and about 20 storyboard sketches. Each sketch and rendering was based on the same design and showed different ways the set could be used. I gave her blue sketches with infused water imagery and gold ones with fire. I always show audience in my sketches too to show the energy that happens when an audience interacts with a performer. I drew in pyro effects and lighting concepts too.

Drowned Madonna: Which was the first set you designed for the show?

Bruce Rodgers: The first concept sketch was a ground plan. I needed to be sure my sightlines allowed for maximum seating for ticket sales and more importantly so everyone in the room had a view of the performance.

Drowned Madonna: What was the biggest challenge?

Bruce Rodgers: Some of Madonna's touring personnel who had been waiting 10 years for another Madonna tour ended up being the biggest challenge. I was the new person in the production team and these people were like pirates on a ship. Production managers and business managers hammered every idea I had. Budgets were inflated to make it look like my design was out of control. Roof weights were exaggerated to make it look like I had designed a rig to heavy to tour. Etc etc. It was a dramatic behind the scenes drama being played out each day. But it was fun. I had to threaten to quit three times during the concept phase to show everyone how strongly I felt about the design. Luckily Madonna supported my design and without her it would not have been possible. The finished product was almost exactly like the concept sketches thanks to her support.
A funny story happened in the design process that I should talk about. After Madonna approved the concept design she pretty much left all the decision making up to her director Jamie, and me. I had my studio make a white study model of the design because I wanted her to have a 3-d version of the design during her dance rehearsals. During the fabrication of the actual set I was ready to paint it all shiny, silver, modern…just like Ricky's La Vida Loca set that she loved so much. However Jamie decided he wanted the set to be painted brown like a volcano and said that she wanted it done that way. I argued but finally said ok and we painted the set like a giant brown volcano rather than a shiny, silver, modern temple. When we loaded in the set for production rehearsals she was shocked to see the brown set…she didn't comment on the color for a few days I think out of politeness…until finally she called for a huge production meeting in front of everyone. Her reason for calling the meeting was to tell me she hated the set. I asked her why and she said because it was brown. Evidently she had not asked for a brown set. Jamie was sitting there next to the white study model and didn't say a word…he was sort of in shock…it was funny but uncomfortable for Jamie. Madonna pointed at the study model and said ' that's what I want!".
I told her I could paint it over night and we did. It took 4 scenic painters 12 hours to paint the brown volcano into the silver temple it was meant to be. When she came in the next evening she walked up to me with a hug and asked if I liked it better and I said yes…and so did Jamie.

Drowned Madonna: Very interesting and funny... Bruce, you designed the set, but who did create it?

Bruce Rodgers: Several shops. The shop responsible for making everything the audience saw such as the artistic shapes, the temple walls, the Spanish chair and the roving staircase was AllAccess Inc. My sculptor friend Marc Fichou sculpted the Japanese tree. B&R Scenery fabricated the hidden elements such as the staging structure and hydraulics. The softgoods were made by SEWWHAT inc. But let me say here that a production design at this and any scale is a beautiful collaboration of everyone in the production. In ''Drowned World" lot's of smart touring people were responsible for making the show go around the world and in and out of venues day after day. That's what is special about this field of design.

Drowned Madonna: Did you see her re-Invention Tour?

Bruce Rodgers: Only on television.

Drowned Madonna: What are your impressions?

Bruce Rodgers: I'm sure the music and the dance was great in the live show but I couldn't get an impression of the set design from the television or from photographs. It seemed to rely mainly on video elements, which can be flat, and without depth and technology. The video imagery can be great but the eyes get tired of led sources. I felt like the lighting designer must have been frustrated in trying to work around the huge led walls. I think that all the technology overpowered the soul of her music. I believe every performance should mix ancient and modern vibes to be successful because people instinctively are ancient/modern themselves - especially people in a congregational setting. I'm not convinced that happened on her "Re-invention Tour" as well as it happened in "Drowned World".

Drowned Madonna: Which was the most challenging project you worked on?

Bruce Rodgers: I can't say but after my experience with Madonna nothing was the same. Examples: Madonna cared about quality, Madonna came to work on time, Madonna rehearsed, and Madonna made everyone work toward the same goal to create excellence.

Drowned Madonna: What would you suggest to those who would like to go your route?

Bruce Rodgers: Be honest, find your personality and inject who you are into everything you do. Draw by hand and computer and work as hard as you can while you are young. Teach yourself how to draw and draw the way you draw…in other words draw what your mind's eye and your hand sees. Last note: love your work, say your prayers and follow your dreams, make the lighting designers look good.

Drowned Madonna: What are your working on right now?

Bruce Rodgers: I am designing a world tour for the DaveMatthewsBand and the first US tour for Holland's DJ Tiesto.

Drowned Madonna: Thank you so much Bruce for spending your time to chat with us. Is there something you'd like to say to Madonna's fans?

Bruce Rodgers: Having met her I can say she was a great entity, full of energy and protective of art and artists. Thanks for asking me to share.

Drowned World Tour Set Design and Story Boards

Drowned World Tour Inspirational Imagery

Grammy Awards Set Design